No way he juiced....
The longevity streak simply isn't possible for a player going through multiple courses of steroid-induced training...
If he faced a pitcher with a tell and didn't let anyone else in on it ,,, is thta not a form of cheating? of gaining the system?...not sure what you are talking about here...
...how does anyone make the claim that a guy did or didn't with such certainty just by looking at his physique or stats???...the guy played 20 years, its more than likely he tried, or experimented with something over those years with so many others, including teammates using, and the open air culture of PED's during the majority of his career....a player could have used for a few months, decided he didn't want to do it any longer and quit....does that make him a user???...maybe it caused him other problems, maybe he was afraid of getting caught, for any number of reasons, he may have experimented and then quit...simply because his stats didn't spike, or he didn't hit monstrous moonshots tells you nothing...just as some players lightly tinkered with it, there are others that probably went overboard with the use, and you saw the crazy spikes in stats, and the freakish body changes...but that still makes them all users...
Let me get this straight. Because Biggio or Ripken played a lot of years, you figure they "more than likely" dabbled in PEDs ? If someone like Bryce Harper, who went .270 / 22 HR / 59 RBIs over 139 games with 18 SBs looks like a pretty good player (though with a not-great SO:BB ratio). But if he were to play 20 more years at 80-120% of current output and made appearances in 150 games or more, guess who he looks like- Craig Biggio. Longevity and good (but not great) stats make for a very good looking career.
And again, I tell you that it's heavily against the odds that someone plays for 20 years in 2,850 games and went through multiple courses of steroid treatment. It's unnatural and screws with conditioning. Baseball is a game of attrition. Biggio doesn't average 20 SBs and 50 extra base hits a year for that long without interruption if he's continually juicing.
And yes- experimenting for a few months and then quitting is still cheating. There's not much of a distinction to cheating for half a season and cheating for 4 years. Despite Jose Canseco's assertions, it's not as though 100% of the players are juicing, so it is not a level playing field. Stats are being manipulated, game outcomes have been affected; the entire Steroid Era is tainted.
..again, how do you make the claim that something isn't POSSIBLE...and #2, who said you had to go through extensive years or seasons , or multiple courses to be considered a USER???...there are exceptions to everything...one guy can't throw 2 or 3 seasons without blowing out his arm, and another like Nolan Ryan can throw 100+ mph for 20 years...you can't explain why, some of it is genetics, some of it just luck...but to say its impossible to be a durable iron man, and have used steroids at some point, is ridiculous..is it possible that Ripken never used???...sure... and when I look at his stats , they look a lot like Aaron's over 20 years...steady and consistent all the way thru and then tailing off in the later years....but that doesn't prove Ripken never used at some point or never experimented with PED's on some level during his career...
Look, you're not going to find many people more critical of the Steroid Era in baseball than me. Bonds, Sosa and Clemens never deserve to be in the HOF, IMO. I'd like for Bonds to have his stats invalidated, if that were even possible, because for him it wasn't even about winning championships or getting a bigger next contract- it was about stat manipulation and his own BS legacy.
Of course anything is possible someone uses a PED for only a fleeting moment and stops. But it's incredibly unlikely and near-impossible to do it for as long as Ripken did, considering what steroids does to a body's recovery and endurance. You can't compare pitchers and hitters, given their different genetics and development and try to say that Nolan Ryan's fastballs at age 39 are as unsuspicious as Barry Bonds hitting 45 HRs at age 39. Ripken never had any monster season, or late surge. He was just pretty good, for a very long time. The only thing he's guilty of concerning PEDs is knowing that his teammates (Tejada, Palmeiro, Anderson, etc.) were juicing and did nothing about it.
But in the end, yeah, I'd say Ripken was about as clean as Hank Aaron.
a hypothetical...
basically, Hank Aaron is facing a pitcher, when the pitcher is about to throw a curveball, he leans on the mound a certain way, Aaron knows this - he's known it for years. So he rakes against this guy every time he faces him ... is that not cheating in some fashion?
Yeah, I know. *sigh.a hypothetical...
basically, Hank Aaron is facing a pitcher, when the pitcher is about to throw a curveball, he leans on the mound a certain way, Aaron knows this - he's known it for years. So he rakes against this guy every time he faces him ... is that not cheating in some fashion?
wow. CBS, where the hell is the ignore button?
What the fark??!!Yeah, I know. *sigh.a hypothetical...wow. CBS, where the hell is the ignore button?
basically, Hank Aaron is facing a pitcher, when the pitcher is about to throw a curveball, he leans on the mound a certain way, Aaron knows this - he's known it for years. So he rakes against this guy every time he faces him ... is that not cheating in some fashion?
Intuition and studious preparation of your opponent clearly give some kind of illegal competitive advantage...? Yeah, some people shouldn't be allowed to watch sports, let alone comment on them.
He's the PROF ?And according to him the four NFL teams that are playing tomorrow in the NFC/AFC Championship games are all cheating because they're watching hours of game tape analyzing the strengths and weaknesses of their opponents to gain an edge.
And according to him the four NFL teams that are playing tomorrow in the NFC/AFC Championship games are all cheating because they're watching hours of game tape analyzing the strengths and weaknesses of their opponents to gain an edge.Maybe you're missing his point. He's alleging that Barry Bonds used steroids to manipulate his stats, but that it doesn't matter because it's the "same" as reviewing game tape, practicing hard and above all- because some other, unspecified player(s) out there might have done something similar. He wants a Hall of Fame where anything goes.
*scratches head*....wow.Kinda makes Jim Rome seem like a genius by comparison, doesn' it ?
Maybe you're missing his point. He's alleging that Barry Bonds used steroids to manipulate his stats, but that it doesn't matter because it's the "same" as reviewing game tape, practicing hard and above all- because some other, unspecified player(s) out there might have done something similar. He wants a Hall of Fame where anything goes.*facepalm*
Kinda makes Jim Rome Terry Bradshaw seem like a genius by comparison, doesn' it ?There.
a hypothetical...
basically, Hank Aaron is facing a pitcher, when the pitcher is about to throw a curveball, he leans on the mound a certain way, Aaron knows this - he's known it for years. So he rakes against this guy every time he faces him ... is that not cheating in some fashion?...
You Ravens fans just can't let it go...Kinda makes Jim Rome Terry Bradshaw seem like a genius by comparison, doesn' it ?There.
And yes- experimenting for a few months and then quitting is still cheating. There's not much of a distinction to cheating for half a season and cheating for 4 years....
You Ravens fans just can't let it go...Face it, Bradshaw is an idiot and Steeler homer. As was famously said of him: "He couldn't spell 'cat' if you spotted him the c and the a."
Search your feelings. I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate !
...that is exactly my point, how do you say with such certainty that no way a particular guy used, or experimented with PEDS for at least a short period...a few weeks, a few months...whether it was Ripken or Biggio or anyone else...especially given they played for 20 years, and many of those years were during the height of the usage...You gotta go with test results, and if there are no positive results, then you have to give him the benefit of the doubt, unfortunately. The circumstantial evidence is pretty poor. There were no statistical spikes showing boosts to stolen bases or extra base hits, no bizarre injuries, and no photos of Ripken or Biggio with sudden adult acne or massive rippling musculature.
me and Canseco both think this by the way...
Face it, Bradshaw is an idiot and Steeler homer. As was famously said of him: "He couldn't spell 'cat' if you spotted him the c and the a."There are a whole bunch of former players-turned-analysts who should have retired long ago due to lack of intelligence and Terry Bradshaw's at the top of the list, yes. Dan Marino and Shannon Sharpe are a distant second.
